Monday, November 29, 2010

Secularism has Hijacked Science

You hear it frequently; Science and religion are separate parts of our lives. Science is based on fact, religion is based on faith.

Within that context, science has essentially excluded God-Words from existence. Carl Sagan declared the physical world as "...all that is." More recently, Richard Dawkins talked about the irrationality of belief in God. The New York Times Book Review has hailed him as a writer who "understands the issues so clearly that he forces his reader to understand them too."

As humans have become more intellectually focused, look what has happened.
  • Creation has become spontaneous generation and random-chance evolution.
  • Christmas has degenerated into a jolly old man in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer and stores that promote a Black Friday greed day.
  • Easter is now populated with fluffy white bunnies and colorful eggs.
  • Science research has create a sense of "knowing" that is humanisticaly based and continues to pursue the extention of natural life.
  • Public education embraces the "diversity" inherent in alternate lifestyles, yet legally stifles open  discussion of a Christian worldview.
Other than that, things are okay!

How about you as an individual?
  • Does the trend towards full secularization need addressing?
  • Is it too late to recapture the intellectual high ground?
  • Are Christians intellectually capable or presenting logically sound reasons for a God-driven faith?
  • Are we motivated enough to even attempt that task?
  • Can we turn our use of enjoyable technology away from mind-numbing apathy into aggressive evangelizing?
  • Have you thought about how to address these issues with your kids?
Agree or disagree... it doesn't matter. We invite your comments. Just be respectful and support your opinion with logic and fact.

61 comments:

  1. I believe that Christians today have severely lost their critical thinking and rhetorical skills in representing their own faith. More and more biblical teaching is being accepted by contemporary Christians as logical without even researching and doing the reading on their own. I think that Christians, and more specifically evangelical Christians, should take their spiritual walk more seriously and develop their own personal commitment and belief in Jesus Christ instead of accepting their parents' beliefs or blindly and quietly following the teaching of whatever church they are attending.
    Mat C

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  2. I believe that Christians today are definitely intellectually capable of presenting logical reasons for faith. However, too many are unprepared to do so. While it is not a question whether or not is possible to defend Christianity based on the foundation of the faith, it is whether or not the individual knows what they truly believe. Many people have not equipt themselves for a religious debate or conversation. Also,it is my opinion that too many people today throw around the term "Christian" too loosely. Much of America would classify themselves as "Christian" without acutally being born-again believers. It is in situations like these that problems can arise. If an ardent follower of another religion happens to strike up a faith-based debate or conversation with these people, then they will not be able to glean facutal information from the conversation. Thus, this may lead them to lower their view of the intellectual capabilities of Christians. While it is not up to anyone to judge whether or not someone is truly a Christian, as believers we need to be able to defend our beliefs through the knowledge we have of our faith.
    Mor L

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  3. That is painfully, very true. I agree with you 100 percent. And I think a good way to combat this intellectual apathy, and as a response to how we should spiritually raise our children, I believe that we should include in basic Sunday School Curriculum simple, yet powerful, evangelical tools related to the age group. If we can teach our children, not only in church but as part of growing up, evangelical material as a foundation that can be added to and expounded upon as they grow older, then maybe Christians, and especially young Christians, would be better equipped, and armed with deeper knowledge on their own self-adopted religion.
    Mat C

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  4. I believe that the trend towards full secularization needs addressing. We were created as individuals with our own individual minds. If we loose our individual beliefs we all become one big mob with watered down thoughts. As we move to the mob mentality, individuals will loose the ability to think for themselves. People always say that the diversity of America is what makes it so extraordinary and contributes to its successfulness. We should move towards tolerance, however no one should have to suppress his or her beliefs.
    If you believe in Creation theory, it is important to find solid scientific evidence of your beliefs so that you can stand in the secular world against all other religions. It is not “society’s” responsibility to make Christian’s feel like their beliefs are correct. It is up to the Christian community and believers to show society why what they believe is correct.

    Jes S

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  5. In response to the idea of "Science is based on fact, religion is based on faith." I think that these lines have been blurred and moved to far extremes to disassociate their elements from each other. From an objective standpoint Science bases itself on fact, but there is an element of faith involved in it as well. For the longest time, early scientists believed the earth was the center of the world to which they believed with true faith. Though proven wrong later by fact they held on for a long time by faith. The belief that the sun will rise tomorrow is an act of faith alone though tied together with the facts that the sun has risen consistently every day. In the same manner religion itself, though rooted in faith has aspects of fact tied into it as well. Looking into pretty much any religion, there are stories and tales which support ideas and thoughts on how to live. Very core truths about people themselves. For one, there is the whole golden rule idea. Jesus and Confucius both offered ideas on how to treat other people. With hospitality to those in need, that can be understood by all people of all cultures. Religion reaches truth into the very depth of psychological and social interactions between people.
    I think that these both cannot fully separate themselves into individual elements rather, require a little bit of both.

    Dav A

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  6. Secularization needs to be addressed because it threatens Christianity. I feel as though the problem with today is that with the increasing secularization of society comes the fact the people are becoming individualistic. Basically, everything now is up to interpretation. You see more and more people defining their own kind of religion or pseudo-Christianity. There are no more immutable laws but rather personal laws that can and are mostly derived from individual desire. This is why we see Christianity getting a bad reputation because it has a set of morals that are canon and therefore are not left up for interpretation. People essentially want to be their own God defining what is right and wrong in their eyes.
    Concerning the intellectual part of the argument, I feel as though the ability for us to be intellectual and christian at the same time will be hard. Trying to reconcile faith and intellect is somewhat tough because there will always be a question that requires faith. We can become equipped to handle arguments in meaningful way that will peacefully convey our thoughts and beliefs. Science can be a tool for Christianity but it is at a disadvantage because the secular world has built science from the ground up as religion-less aspect of society. This is when we want to be intellectual because we have to understand the other side of the argument and reconcile that with our faith.

    Kirk D.

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  7. Response to Mat C's first post:

    I totally agree with you on the fact that a lot of the time you find Christians who follow a kind of herd mentality. They support whatever is the current trend or what has been the most consistent belief throughout their lives. This is concerning on two sides. One it destroys any kind of awareness to ones own belief. Two it could be replicating values that are not necessarily from the church itself but rather outside values that are making it's way into the church value-system.

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  8. the last post on december 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM was by Kirk D.

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  9. Response to Jes S's post:

    I do understand where you are coming from but Christianity in it of itself a group of people who have the same beliefs or at least the same principles. If we were to think of ourselves as purely individual wouldn't then the label of Christianity be useless? If we were purely individual then we could define our own religion. Basically, there is always going to be a common set of morals or principles (the bible) that Christians will refer to.

    I think that you are probably trying to err on the side of the fact that people sometimes get carried away with the group mentality I.E. cults. I would say that the important part to remember is that we can have separate thoughts but refer back to the same principle. It just depends on how we apply that to our different life experiences.

    Kirk D.

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  10. I do believe that we need to address this growing secularization because God is what made this country great. Our founding fathers new the importance of including God into their plans and because of it America was blessed. However, more and more Americans are turning away and the government is turning away from those beliefs and values and now America is facing some tough times. Its funny how people that usually don't believe in God will call out to him in time of need. This in itself shows that people do acknowledge that their is some sort of higher power, they just refuse to believe. However, I also feel like many Christians are going along with this trend of secular thinking and their faith isn't as strong as it could be. Having lived in a third world country where Christians are persecuted heavily and yet seeing the believers there so on fire for the Lord makes me think that Americans has gotten too comfortable. Being a Christian isn't a challenge. They just go with the flow and in result their faith is not challenged. It is much easier for them to fall into the ways of the world and into this secular way of life. Christians need to be pushed out of their comfort zones and they need to challenge others. Without a joint effort this world will become more secular

    Sar A

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  11. "Is it too late to recapture the intellectual high ground?.. Are we motivated enough to even attempt that task?"

    To start off, we live in an age of convenience. Food is cooked quickly yet we complain when it's not fast enough. We are able to travel across the world in a matter of days yet we get impatient when the flight is a little late. People used to have to write and call each other in order to maintain contact and meaningful relationships, yet now we have the internet and facebook. Everything is pretty much handed to us to which we then do not fully learn among inconvenience. As long as we stay settled in this living style and mindset, nothing will change.

    Though, things can change. But that involves changing the perspective of living in this mindset of convenience. By removing ourselves from having everything handed to us, it can motivate us to seek, learn, and discover for ourselves.I'm not saying that we totally give up on everything, but there comes a point where steps could be taken to try to live without somethings that give convenience to our lives.

    Dav A

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  12. In science we have been reading only the notes to a poem; in Christianity we find the poem itself. - C.S. Lewis

    I think this quote has a lot of relevance to this discussion. Science, while very necessary to have an understanding of, cannot give us all the answers. Therefore at some point we have to turn to our beliefs to get answers.

    Jes B

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  13. Christianity has been loosing the intellectual battle for a long time. Somewhere along the line Christians got really caught up in the idea of blind faith and no longer thought there was a need to be able to intellectually defend that faith anymore. Living in a world were news can travel around the world in a blink of an eye and new threat foreign and domestic pop up ever hour, a faith based religion is not exactly the most appealing thing to turn to. As far as Christianity being kicked out of holidays, I would more say pushed aside. America is clearly a consumer motivated society, we see adds everywhere, our capitalistic economy demands our obedience to spending. Ever since the first gift was exchanged over the holidays the spending grew and grew until like now even those without money are buying thousands in gifts going into dept. At some point this lifestyle will catch up to our society and collapse it. Christianity could possible take back the intellectual high ground but they are so far behind it would be like trying to catch up to Usian Bolt. Better hope he trips up at some point and when he does, be ready to over take him.

    Phi Cra

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  14. In Response to Jes B

    Yes it is great for us as Christians that we can turn to the faith and beliefs we have and fell comfort in the answers we find, but you have to look at the issue from some one's point of view that doesn't share those beliefs. To that person, the hard facts of science look a lot better.

    Phi Cra

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  15. In Response to Sar A

    This country was founded by people who had faith in God, but it was also founded with a separation of Church and State. The only thing that ever made america a christina nation was that for a while the majority of the nation aligned itself with christianity. I do agree with you though when you say Americans have gotten too comfortable. They are also unwilling to change and adapt. For example look at christmas spending that takes place during these tough economic times. At what point will people stop spending and start saving. After pearl Harbor, people were asked to ration and save. After 9/11 people were told to go out and spend to protect the american way of life. I'll agree with you that that mentality was not what founded our nation.

    Phi Cra

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  16. In response to Phi Cra and Sar A
    I do agree with you in the idea about you mentioning the difference in our style of living in WWII versus 9/11 especially as a result of consumerism. This leads into what Sar A mentioned about Christian's faiths not being as strong. We are deeply rooted in consumerism. By having more stuff, more technology, more things to take and fill up our lives,more of want we want rather than what we need, we lose focus and stay fixed on the the things in the physical. Because of that, it becomes harder to focus on things in the spiritual realm. Because of this materialism, we want things rooted in reality which edges us further into secularism.

    @ Phi Cra just wondering, do you have a perspective or idea on how to try and recover somewhat from this this mindset of consumerism...especially since we are so engrossed in it?

    Dav A

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  17. Mat C, I definitely agree with your perspective on blindly accepting the beliefs of our parents or those who influence us. If being in college has taught me anything, it has shown me that sooner or later, one has to develop their own sense of spiritual identity. As we get older, the cultivation of our faith as Christians seems more and more to be a matter of personal intention and less of a comfortable lifestyle. Learning to think critically about that faith from an early age, through exploring various perspectives and coming to an original conclusion, can aid greatly in validly representing Christianity. To have truly thought about and considered matters such as these is vital to one's own spiritual journey.
    Joh D

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  18. Yes it does. From my perceptions, the trend towards full secularization need be addressed carefully. Many times, it is easy to get passionate about something one sees as wrong, and allow that passion to control their response. If we truly care about preserving the Gospel on earth, we will not allow our emotions to get the better of us in this situation. It is obviously an issue, however the true problem noted by non believers appears to be less of a resentment of Christianity itself, and more of a desire to have an even plain of ideals and principles. It is highly offensive to me personally, but I feel like no matter what the founding beliefs of our nation were, there could still be equal opposition to them today. Not to say that this is not one of the many forms of persecution our faith will experience, but from this point of view it seems easier to relate to those who persecute us. In this way, perhaps a dialogue toward a solution could occur. Moreover, to see that the Christian response is one of both bold conviction and respect speaks volumes about what we believe in.
    Joh D

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  19. Effectively using technology and its many upsides seems to be a matter of how we approach our enjoyment of it. Nurturing those experiences and opportunities that can bring us together (ex: XBOX 360) in particular appears to be a matter of discipline and intention. It seems as though the internet, videogames, and even our ipods can do as much to help our ministry as to hurt it. Inviting friends over to play HALO for the sake of fellowship, or keeping in touch with a friend or accountability partner through Skype, is evidently harmless. Relating to those around us in general takes at least some connectedness to technology. Yet, when those tools that draw us together start to pull us away, a problem has formed. I fight the impulse to play videogames rather than spend time with my family, or even go to church. When I can witness technology having a sort of parasitic effect on the rest of my life, I know that a change needs to happen. I feel like here, when it has the ability to damage those concrete things around us, is when it must be cut off or altered for the sake of preserving its purpose; that is, to help.
    Joh D

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  20. The trend towards full secularization does need addressing. Christians in the western culture today have definitely lost their intellectualism and reason for their beliefs, which has influenced society to believe that Christians are unintelligent. As Christians, we need to be able to defend our faith and use reason and logic to explain why our beliefs are correct. Christians need to put effort into expanding their knowledge by constant study and learning so that they can not only be intellectual christians but also reveal love for Christ by using our mind. God commanded us to use our mind and intellect in our spiritual life to serve out His good and perfect will. In Romans 12:1-2, God calls us to separate ourselves from this world by “renewing [our] mind, so that you may prove that the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” Jesus reveals the greatest commandment in Matthew 22:37, which is, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.” I do not believe it will ever be too late to become intelligent Christians as long as Christians are willing to put in the effort, which is a way of showing our love for God
    Kaylin B.

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  21. For this first comment, I'm just going to go into where my mind goes after first thinking about the topic of full secularism. I think that we are at an odd time in history where things of secularism are not providing a deep enough satisfaction in and of themselves. Something that sets us apart as human being is this longing for more to fulfill our deeper intellectual capacities (perhaps that is why we sought out science in the first place). Even though for so long we thought we were satisfied by more and more materialism and greed (thinking we have all that we need), I think that we have come to a time where we are no longer satisfied with surface level things. Rather, I think that our minds are searching to function on complex levels like believing in something higher than ourselves. In the odd time we are at right now, we are trying to fit the fulfilling things like secularism in along with the complexities of Christianity. We all want the best of both worlds as we struggle with the fine lines between the two. However, I do not think that Christianity an entirely committed and authentic faith if the lines stay confused. This is why we see consumerism in the modern church...because we apply the things of society to our Christian lives instead of the other way around.

    Bro G.

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  22. Secularism is an emense topic to discuss. First,we are all learners, seekers of meaning; longing for something deeper. This can either be seeking God,trying to understand life or just trying to make sene of this world.
    Second, in response to Dav A and Phi Cra; recovering from a mindset of consumerism is no easy task. I learned in a Bible class that greed is "cured" with service. By giving away that which we stuff in our closets, it counteracts our desire for more material.
    I believe this ties in with Christmas. The focus of Christmas has become obscure. Our preparation is no longer for Christ's begining story, but is in preparation for travel, party's, and gifts. Preparation for Christmas should be to prepare our hearts for the miracle of Christ's birth, then life, death and resurrection. So it is possilbe that giving and service may help refocus society.

    Kay Ail

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  23. The secularization of the world is quite scary, but as Christians we shouldn't be afraid of that. With each new discovery, we know that it's from God, and we can't just hide away and think that it will all go away. If we are to reach out to the public we have to know what the public is talking about. If we don't understand what is going on in the world then they won't understand us when we are trying to integrate Jesus and Christianity into society.
    Society doesn't want to accept Christianity, because of the stereotypes that all Christians shove the religion down their throats. However, if we engage them in intellectual thought and don't have an agenda then possibly they'll come to realize we care about them and want them to come to know the love of Jesus.

    Jeremy Loo.

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  24. I agree with Mat C that it would have an impact on the youth of America if evangelical lessons were incorporated into children's schooling. It is so common for evolution and strictly scientific belief systems to be taught, but it is much more rare for Christian viewpoints to be discussed. If they are treated and explained in the same way that Darwin's points were, then students would get a more rounded view of the different perspectives on the topic. It is disheartening that youth that has not grown up in the church, and if they went to a school that taught only evolution, will not have the opportunity as readily to hear a different view of the creation of the earth. While I understand that they try and keep religiosity out of schools in respect for the different religions, by only espousing scientific theories, which some believe in as whole-heartily as in Christianity, they are giving more credit to those thoughts over Christian thoughts.
    Mor L.

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  25. I agree with what Jeremy Loo said. We as Christians shouldn't cut ourselves off from the outside world because if we do not know the people how can we know the best way to share Christ with them? We have to put ourselves out there for everyone to see and as they say actions speak louder than words so if we want to truly have and impact on the world the best way to do that is by living out how Christ wants us to live. The one catch is that once we immerse ourselves into the secular world, we have to be careful that we do not fall into that lifestyle which potentially can be very easy to do. Living your life differently than the rest of the world can be challenging but with His help it is absolutely possible.

    Sar A

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  26. I agree with Sar A and Jeremy Loo. While Christians are called to act in a manner glorifying to the Lord, we are still human. With this comes fallibility and our own temptations. It is important for Christians to remember that while we need to exemplify Christ through our actions, that we are not better than anyone else. I believe that it is important for Christians to not be hypocritical in the ways that we live. This is an aspect of Christianity that so many nonbelievers find offensive, and we need to show them that we are not above them, merely striving to a different goal.
    Mor L.

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  27. I absolutely agree that this surge of secularism needs to be addressed and that, as Christians, we are called to give a ready defense for our faith. I do think, though, that we need to be wary of placing too much weight in our intellect when making that defense. In 1 Corinthians 1 and 2, Paul talks about the wisdom of God and the wisdom of man. "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God," Paul writes. "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" For this reason, when he preached the Gospel to the Corinthians, Paul "did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified... my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God" (2:1-2, 4-5). Paul does not attempt to appear intellectual to his audience. He simply speaks the truth. Likewise, while called to be credible and clear when discussing faith, we will never "reason" someone to Christ. Ultimately, only God can reveal the truth to a person.

    - Ann M.

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  28. In response to Jon D -

    I appreciate your insights regarding technology - how on some level it is necessary in order for us to relate to others, but that it also has the potential to become a parasite. In another post, your reminder to have both bold conviction and respect when discussing our faith gave me something to think about. :)

    In one of your first posts, you wrote that exploring various perspectives at an early age helps individuals reach an original conclusion when it comes to faith. This seemed to suggest that we expose children to various religious views so they can decide for themselves what to believe. While I understand this reasoning, I disagree. When it comes to the Gospel, Paul had zero tolerance for alternative interpretations. He writes to the Galatians in Galatians 1:8, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed" (see also 1 Timothy 6:3-5). As Christians, we should not present other religions as viable options - especially not to young children. We are told to train them up in the way they should go - not confuse them with notions of relative truth (Proverbs 22:6).

    When giving Titus the qualifications for church overseers, Paul writes that an overseer must hold fast "the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict" (Titus 1:9). If these are the instructions for a mere overseer, then it makes sense that the pastors and teachers - those who are actually delivering the messages to the congregation - must make sure their teaching aligns with the truth! As it turns out, a few verses later in Titus 2:1 Paul writes: "But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine."

    While going through that questioning phase can absolutely strengthen faith and clarify personal beliefs, the church is not the place to intentionally blur lines. While the church is a wonderful place to ask questions and seek truth, teachers and pastors do not have permission to waver on sound doctrine.

    - Ann M.

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  29. In response to Sar A. -

    I loved what you wrote in response to Jeremy, about how we have to be in the world but not of the world. A lot of other posts have talked about how complacent and comfortable the American church is. I wonder what would happen in terms of our secular culture if we really did engage our world? And in that engaging, like Bro G. wrote, we stop applying society and culture to our faith and start applying our faith to society? I am not sure how a mass movement would work - but if enough individuals began to live their faith out loud, Christians could begin to make a difference.

    - Ann M.

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  30. As a nation founded on God, we have really strayed from the principles and morals our Founding Fathers established. I feel the trends towards full secularization pose a problem and do need addressing, especially from Christians. We are told to not conform to this world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds. How are we able to fulfill this command if we constantly allow ourselves to get caught up in the secular aspect of things. I do not feel it is too late to recapture the intellectual high ground; however, we cannot rely solely on our source of wisdom and knowledge to do so. If we rely on ourselves to do such things, we will fail. As Christians, we can present the truth, the Absolute Truth, for a God-driven faith. However, it may not always come across as being logical. Philosophers over the years have said that the secular world cannot get upset at Christians for not fully being able to explain and prove Christianity. Why? Because the whole foundation for what we believe is inexplainable. Faith is believing in things which we cannot fully understand or comprehend; thus, since this is our claim, it is alright for not all things to make sense to the secular world. Our job is to present the truth and allow God and the Holy Spirit to work in the hearts and lives of those who hear it. We should be motivated enough to do this because of the Great Commission and the command in Matthew. What is our purpose on this earth if it isn't for glorifying God in our lives and sharing the Good News with all around us? Since technology has been on the rise, it has been a challenge to prevent it from turning into mind-numbing apathy. However, I do believe it is possible to use technology into aggressive evangelizing. Steps have already been taken towards this direction. It will not be easy though, because our sinful natures will desire to slip into what everyone is doing and how they are treating/misusing technology. John Piper is a renowned evangelist and pastor in my area. On his website, he provides his sermons in text form and audio form. This is one way technology has been used in a positive way. I fear what the world will look like when my children are around. I feel like it will be very difficult as a Christian to stand against the things/ways of the world. All I can do is build them on a solid Biblical foundation and make them aware and knowledgeable of the things around them and how it all should be addressed. In Proverbs we are told to "train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it." By using Scripture and installing what I know to be true in my child's life, it is then up to them and God to build a relationship together that will combat the issues that arise.


    -Catrin T

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  31. After reading what Joh D posted on technology, I must agree with much that was said. He made a lot of good points on whether technology acts as a hindrance or not. A lot of it does come down to the intentions of the heart and how disciplined we are with it. I was not raised on video games as a child, but I did see the effects it had on my friends. While certain things can encourage ministry and fellowship, the abuse of them can clearly be a detriment. I have a hard time with some of the video games that parents are letting their children play, especially because of how violent they can be. It is not good for a child to sit in front of the television all day shooting people and blowing things up. I like how John labeled it as a "parasitic effect on the rest of my life." Having enough discernment to see this is key and a good heads-up that priorities are not straight and time management is not happening.

    -Catrin T

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  32. Jeremy Loo's comment on secularization of the world made some good points, but I do want to raise a question about it as well. He said that as Christians we shouldn't be afraid of the secularization of the world, "with each new discovery we know that it's from God." While I agree that we cannot hide away and that it is important for us to know what the public is talking about, I do not think we can claim that the secularization of the world or each new discovery is from God. God has allowed man's mind to create and come up with some remarkable things and allows us to make these new discoveries, but I do not believe they are all from God. Some new discoveries are not beneficial and can be used in dangerous ways. For example, during the time of the tower of Babel, man was able to build great architectural structures and create wonderful pyramids etc. However, this discovery caused man to think he was more powerful than God and could reach new heights and be the greatest. The new discovery of being able to build such things was allowed by God, but I do not believe it came from Him because of how He handled the situation. Just something to think about when we label discoveries/secularization of the world as always being from God.

    -Catrin T

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  33. i agree with what matt c says that Christians as a whole have lost a lot of their critical thinking skills..but I do think this applies to a lot of young Christians. So many times we go with the crowd and even if we know what we believe we don't know why we believe it or have proof of our beliefs.

    meg k.

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  34. Religion can be based on faith and fact. I believe in Christianity because of proof (fact) and because of faith (believing without seeing). Both of these things play a role in what I believe and why I believe it.

    In a way, I think science has to do with both faith and fact. Scientists have faith that the world started a certain scientific way even if they don't have solid proof. With certain hypothesis and experiments they have faith that they will turn out how they want them too.

    Meg K.

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  35. Are Christians intellectually capable of presenting logically sound reasons for a God-driven faith? Are we motivated enough to even attempt that task?
    Christians ARE capable it's just a matter of if they are motivated enough to take the time to actually do that. There's kind of a lazy era of Christians now.. and Faith is often the scapegoat. Instead of finding answers in the Bible, Christians just use "well i have faith" to answer the questions


    Can we turn our use of enjoyable technology away from mind-numbing apathy into aggressive evangelizing?
    Technology can be used for great things involving faith. Sites such as Facebook, MySpace and twitter can be used to show people our faith and especially be used to spread the word. Blogs can be used to question peoples faith and to share our own.

    meg k

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  36. I agree with Meg's comments on religion and its explainability and lack of explainability. Many unbelievers do not realize how well the Bible correlates to actual historical events. Alexander the Great was around when certain things were occurring in the Old Testament that prove the Bible is true. However, things like Jesus' resurrection cannot be explained and requires faith. Even as a Christian, I cannot wrap my mind around such an event. Our brains cannot fathom the possibility of it actually taking place. Meg made a good point that Christianity isn't the only "belief system" that combines facts and faith. Many people think science is all fact, but in reality some faith is needed in this area as well.

    Catrin T.

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  37. I strongly agree with Meg K and Catrin T. Its important that christians can substantially support what they believe through means of technology. Christians live in the current world and its important to take interest and motivation in the ways of it. While the Bible does say not to be of the world, we must recognize the ways of it in order to successfully live for God in it.

    Jes S

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  38. I agree wholeheartedly with Catrin. I am looking forward to raising a family so much, but with the downward spiral that this world is headed in and the increasingly hazardous environment that Christians are exposed to, I know that I have my work cut out for me. As a Dad I will be directly responsible for the spiritual maturity and well being of my kids. All I can do is to prepare myself and my heart to partner with my wife's to lead our children to the Lord and to set them off on the right path pointed in the right direction. If I have done my part and raised them biblically, then how they choose to invest their lives and their time is up to them.
    Mat C

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  39. I guess what I meant when I said that secularization comes from God, is that with each discovery we shouldn't shy away from it and allow the fear or whatever comes along with the discovery to cripple us. With each discovery we should be able to find some kind of connection to God, because after all he did create everything. No matter how far away from religion and Christianity this discovery is, we have to find some way to connect it to our religion. If we can't find God in everything then there's no reason why we should be praising him for the Almighty he is. God created everything and we should be able to marvel at that, in every discovery that is made he has some plan, purpose for that.
    Jeremy Loo

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  40. In relation to technology I think it has the greatest potential to bring the Christian community together. I know for a fact that if I didn't have a cellphone and my mother wasn't able to call me to encourage me while at APU, then I think I would definitely have trouble staying strong. I think my cellphones has provided the best way for me to reach others in times of trouble. If I need to talk to someone I get to call my mother or text my sister. I'm not at that stage where I'm able to open up to people here at APU and just spill all my problems. Technology has been very helpful in my struggle while at APU. I would say that the biggest detriment that technology can have is that it is a major distraction to many, and that can have an effect not only on their studies but also on their spiritual life. We just need to recognize when technology is running our lives and we need to realize when to stop and just take a breather and relax. I find it best to just go outside and blend in with nature. Sit down somewhere and gaze up at the sky or watch people doing what they're doing. God is most present when you're just sitting in his creation and being silent in wonderment at how majestic and how powerful he is to have created all of this.
    Jeremy Loo

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  41. I believe that the trend toward secularization needs to be addressed. I looked up the definition online to really understand according to online it is a transformation of a society with close identification and religious values to a society that does not have any of these things.
    Having gone to a public high school where religion was not talked about, it got to the point where people would forget their beliefs and just focus on what they felt was important on things like school or friends. People are starting to live this way in the real world. We don't remember our identification because of what we are being taught in the real world. God created us to be individuals-how can we be individuals in our thoughts if we are all the same? This is an issue that needs to be addressed. Schools and other business focus a lot on things other than religion because they do not want to offend anyone, how do they know they are not offending anyone by not talking about it. Secularization should be addressed.

    All D.

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  42. In response to Dav A's first post:
    I totally agree. When I first read the quote, I thought about the idea of flat earth. I believe that many scientists are afraid that if they mention the word faith it automatically means that they are talking about religion, but that is not the case every single time. It takes a lot of faith to do the same thing every day, whether it is getting up and having faith that God will provide, or having faith that your research in the lab will be over soon.

    All D.

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  43. After reading Meg C's comments, even though it is like the previous post, I couldn't agree more.
    The fact that so many scientists do not understand that their work is also based on a little bit of faith is surprising.
    Also after reading Jeremy Loo's post about technology, I agree with that as well. I think technology can be used for good, even though some people see it as a not so good thing. I actually just got off the phone with my dad and I had not spoken with him since Thanksgiving, if I didn't have my cell phone I couldn't do that. However when it comes to evangelizing, I think a simple act of not conforming to the world, but just being in it is a good way to at least show that we are trying to make a difference in the world.

    All D.

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  44. In response to Jeremy,

    I love your reminder that technology in and of itself is not the problem. It can be a beautiful thing - bringing people together and bridging various gaps. We just need to be aware enough to recognize when it is dominating our lives. Rather than try and cut it off altogether, we should strive to have the self-control to practice everything in moderation.

    Ann M.

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  45. I agree with Meg K. My beliefs are also based on fact. God gave us proof so that we could believe in him. He never asks us to believe in him without first giving us proof. Why can't we live as smart Christians who give proof for their beliefs. If scientists can believe things that sound even more ludicrous and try their best to give proof for what they believe occurred than what is stopping us as Christians to take the time and prove our beliefs? If you are a Christian you should know what you believe and why.

    Kay B.

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  46. Technology has become in issue in our society. Our generation wants everything instantly. We no longer have to think because all the answers are a click away. Although, you would think having all this information easily available to us would increase our knowledge, generally people are lazy and do not critically think. I think if we encouraged children to read and to give them a thirst for a knowledge, we can turn this "I want it now" generation around. We have so many opportunities and information available to us and we need to use it in the most useful way.

    Kay B.

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  47. The fact that many believe science is based on fact and religion is based on faith is one that has dominated the mainstream for decades. People believe that because you can step into a lab and prove that certain chemicals mixed together will cause an explosion, you must be able to accurately depict how the earth was formed. What I find hilarious about the whole process itself, is that part of the scientific process is observe. I can’t recall any scientist who was there when the earth was first created. And on top of that, science still has not been able to show us how the earth came to be, they only know what happened after it formed. At least we as Chrisitians have that advantage, we KNOW that God breathed life into this earth. When discussing easter and Christmas, I don’t believe that we have necessarily accepted those principles, but yet the non-believers are all about santa and the easter bunny, while believers still understand what the holidays mean. I am not too concerned about that one, mainly because we are not a Christian nation. Overwhelming support for Jesus during those times would lead some to believe otherwise about our neutral stance. In the end though, I believe we as Christians have the intellectual high ground over “experts.” My reasoning is, we go out and find research that counters their arguments. We find arguments constantly that challenge the age of the earth and the big bang theory. They stay locked up in their own minds, while never attempting to disprove anything coming from us. Then they shoot us down by saying we are naïve and ignorant…sounds a lot like the democrats.

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  48. In response to Meg K, I would disagree with your comment regarding Christians being lazy. Christians make a very strong attempt to be involved in intellectual debates and such, but like I said in my post, we are regarded as idiots. The majority of the Christian population does not go to school to be a scientist, or to prove how the earth came to be. Thus, when we try to talk to people who did go to school for that, we are shut out. Also, it is very intimidating to debate with someone who can use words that we have never heard of. It would be like a math major debating a political science major…they have the upper hand in each of their studies because they know more about the topic.
    Derek F.

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  49. I agree with Jeremy Loo's comment. We should not shy away from advances in technology, nor let those advances separate us from the rest of the world. The only way to talk to them is to play on their turf. They don't care if we believe the wrong thing, but for them, believing the wrong thing for them could be fateful. It is up to us to spread the love of Jesus to them and we have to do that any way possible. However, as I have mentioned in the posts above, it also depends on them allowing us to talk to them intellectually. If they don't let us in, then what do we do?
    Derek F.

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  50. In response to All D.:
    I went to a public school as well, where religion was not talked about in fear of offense. I have never really thought of the idea that if may be an offense to deprive people of different opinions. Though some schools may have chapters in history books that talk about the world's religions, I think that classroom discussions in everyday class should be a time for students to exercise proclaiming their beliefs and learning about the desires of other beliefs. Learning about other religions is essential to evangelism in order to learn about the longings of other's hearts that only God's grace can fill. This discussion, in turn helps students gain a deeper faith of the mind while at the same exercising faith of the hands through proclamation of their beliefs. Students may not be able to explain their faith of the heart (their experiences with God and the Holy Spirit) but, well rounded discussions like this can help them build stronger faith of the head and hands which will help to secure their faith of the heart. This is the idea of the greatest commandment, to love the Lord with all of your heart and mind and to love your neighbor.
    Bro G.

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  51. On the general discussion of secularism:
    This discussion keeps taking me back to one of the things that I have learned from my time at APU. This idea is about how to have a relevant theology. I have learned that truth should speak into the needs, longings, and problems of contemporary culture and in a way that people can understand. While, relevant theology must also take seriously the discoveries and insights of society, knowing that all truth is God's truth. However, this should be seen as a secondary source to the primary source of Truth, God and his Word.
    This was an essential understanding that one of my Bible classes was based on at APU and I have continuously looked back on it since.
    Bro G.

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  52. For me personally I grew up in the public school system and was never in a Christian school environment until APU. So I personally never thought about the idea of a Christian worldview being stifled or ignored. It was never part of the discussions in class so I never incorporated it into my way of thinking. Now that I have been exposed to it though I do think that I have been deprived of having any discussion of the Christian side of any conversation. The Christian side of discussions should be important to me and I think that in the public education system it is wrong that we are allowed to discuss any other worldview but the Christian worldview is legally wrong to discuss. I think that in time this should be changed so that we as Christians are able to incorporate our own thoughts into the general worldview ideas.
    Kri Mo

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  53. I think that it is wrong that science has turned into knowing and being able to extend natural life rather than just let the natural events take place. I feel like it has turned science into trying to play God and that is wrong in my opinion. We shouldn't be trying to mess around with the natural way of life. If someone is on life support I believe that it is not right for us to do that. I feel like it is science trying to stop God's plan and that it is trying to take control of what should just be left alone.
    Kri Mo

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  54. I also believe as previously stated that Christians have the mental capacity to take on the position of defending faith but are not ready to do so. Its not simple going out and saying i believe this then going to the bible for support. Granted that is a way to go about arguing for the validity of faith but its a meaning less argument if the person does not know what it is that he or she believes in. I think that scientists today have spent too much time looking and analyzing stuff and trying to prove that God does not exist that they fail to see that God is all powerful and can cause everything that they are analyzing.
    Douglas K

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  55. I strongly believe that science and Christianity don't have to be separate--in fact, I think that without God, there would be no science. I don't think that I am a random accident. I know that God created us with a purpose. The only way Darwin's theory could be possible were if God started it and continued to work in the process. Without God, we would not exist. I believe that Christians need to take more of a stand when it comes to public schools and religion. Coming from a public high school, I had a really hard time in my science classes. Particularly in my biology class junior year, I discovered that my teacher was going to be teaching the theory of evolution but not on the theory of creationism. This really upset me because not one theory can be proven more than another and I wanted the class to be informed of BOTH and not just want my public school saw as "politically correct". Therefore, I petitioned to not have to be in class while my teacher lectured on this matter and was able to write a paper on why creationism is a logical theory for our existence. Although I was fortunate enough to not have to listen to a one-sided lecture, I still feel that students everywhere should have the benefit of hearing BOTH options for their existence.

    Kaylee Hunter
    (Tuesday/Thursday 4:20-5:45)

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  56. One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion. So now people assume that religion and morality have a necessary connection. But the basis of morality is really very simple and doesn't require religion at all. It's this: "Don't do unto anybody else what you wouldn't like to be done to you." It seems to me that that's all there is to it.

    Tianzhu Qin

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  57. The other issue is, why can't humans live up to this principle? Why is it that people can't act as human beings should? I'm appalled by what we all see on the news every day-massacres, atrocities, injustices, outrages of all kinds. When I see what's happening, I sometimes wonder if the human race deserves to survive.

    Tianzhu Qin

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  58. I think most of the major changes will be biological, involving advances in DNA research and technologies, among other things. But there's also potentially revolutionary research going on in the physical sciences. The thing that I'm most interested in at the moment is the so-called Infinite Energy solution - the possibility of finding new ways of tapping into virtually limitless sources of energy. It's been about ten years since cold fusion was touted and then laughed at. But since then there's been a groundswell of scientific opinion and lots of experimentation suggesting that maybe there's something important going on, that maybe we can solve our energy needs once and for all. This field is subject to hype and disappointment, yet I'm seeing evidence now that hints that we may be on the verge of an energy breakthrough.

    Tianzhu Qin

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  59. There are some great points and questions brought up in this post, but I would have to disagree with the bias present. It seems to me that this bias states that we as Christians cannot make disciples or evangelize unless we have the "intellectual high ground" or are the religious majority in the country. It is true that as a country we have changed a lot over the past 200 years and have moved away from the ideals of the founding fathers that embraced freedom of religion, Christianity in particular. I don't think we (as Christians) should bemoan the fact that the government is changing or what powers are changing what policies, we need only be concerned with the One who is the power, love and light to our broken world. Or do we need to be reminded that our faith started out in complete opposition to the government of the time? Of course, the bias present in my argument is that Christianity cannot work as a national government, and really isn't supposed to. But Christianity has stood the test of time and has been present in all different kinds of governments, and I think it will continue to do so if we as Christians are internally motivated to act because of our faith, and not content to let our 'Christian' nation do the job for us.

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  60. I agree with your post about the once Christian ideas or holidays have turned into something that has become secularized. It’s kind of weird to think that the idea of Christmas, a holiday based on Christianity, has come to the idea of an imaginary man delivering presents down a chimney. Unfortunately at this point, the holidays will never go back to their original meaning because of the idea of political correctness. I think the only thing we can do now is teach our future kids our values and ideals. It’s unfortunate to see that our sacred times are being subjected to ideas of santa claus and bunnies.

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