Saturday, March 7, 2009

Does God Exist... in Reality?

I'm going to change today's topic just a bit, mainly because in order for us to serious consider how we fit into God's universe we've really got to address the fundamental issue of the existance of God.

The following observations are taken from the website http://www.allaboutscience.org/three-laws-of-thermodynamics-faq.htm, and represent some truly profound ideas.

Certainly those ideas can provide some degree of philosophical or emotional support for both God-believing people and those who do not believe. Thus, the real question might be... does our "belief" in either philosophy validate our own concept? Or is there another approach that must be used?

Does God Exist - Things to Consider

Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer: · Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
  • Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer. · Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
  • The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
  • Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
  • People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?

If your curiosity has been piqued and you desire to look into this matter further, we recommend that you consider the world's assortment of so-called Holy Books. If God does exist, has He revealed Himself? And if He has revealed Himself, surely He exists...

>>> end of quote from http://www.allaboutscience.org/three-laws-of-thermodynamics-faq.htm

And what do you think?

36 comments:

  1. Isn't it a bit of a stretch to equate faith and science?

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  2. On the note that something cannot form from a nonliving thing, one could say that God is the living God and I know some people would agree that this statement is cliché and overused but if we as Christians believe that to be true then our living God created life as we know it.

    I think that we all have a moral compass and I know and believe that I am directed by the Holy Spirit and that God is working within me and when I know something is wrong the Holy Spirit will guide me. But what makes a lot of the difference in people is whether or not they choose to follow that moral compass that God gives us.

    I think that God does exist and that He has created the universe and everything in it for His specific purpose. For me the question is not whether or not God exists but whether or not I will follow His example.

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  3. "the real question might be... does our "belief" in either philosophy validate our own concept?"

    In my philosophy class right now we are discussing Descartes. In his Third meditation, he uses a similar thought process to the one I have quoted above.

    Descartes basically says that God is the cause of our idea of God and the cause of our own existence.

    Why should we have a concept of God if there is no such thing as God? In order to have an idea of "infinite" there must be something infinite to have caused the idea in our minds.

    I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, but this is an article I found that explains it more thoroughly. (http://www.uab.edu/philosophy/faculty/ross/descartes%203rd%20meditation.htm)

    An intelligent living complex thing, cannot be made from unintelligent things. You cannot plant an apple tree and expect Chickens to hatch from their branches. It doesn't work like that.

    Have I made any sense whatsoever? Or have I simply been babbling this entire time:/ Thanks for bearing with me!

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  4. I agree with Bethany. I think that many times we can not possess the ability to think intellectually without having someone who is omniscient to put such an ability within us.

    Deciphering God and his presence it always a complicated topic. Many people argue that it's not possible for God to be omniscient yet allow us to have free will. I feel like many times we think 2 dimensionally about God when God is a 7 dimensional figure.

    Also, kind of off topic, but I came across a psychology article in Health and Science that is about individuals belief in God. The article claims that to the brain, God is just another guy.

    According to a team at the Nation Institutes of Health, "A study of 40 people — some religious, some nonreligious — found that phrases such as "I believe God is with me throughout the day and watches over me" lit up the same areas of the brain we use to decipher the emotions and intentions of other people."

    The article seems to view this with negative connotation and naive, but I read this article positively. I find it conforming to know that God is seen as another person. Of course he is more than another person to me, but I think that these finding seem to make God more real. The brain's capacity for religion may have developed with our complex social interactions.

    I don't know if this makes any sense. If you'd like you can check out the article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101617951

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  5. My first thoughts are it is impossible to prove there is a God. I think that all the points listed above are valid but I think trying to prove to people there is a God through showing that the earth had a beginning, and that people have experienced something supernatural only makes things worse. I think trying to generlize God as a supernatural phenomenon, is putting Him inside a box He doesn't fit into. If I believe in a God, and someone else had a supernatural event, do we still believe in the same God??

    I think the points listed above are interesting, but I have never been favorable of trying to prove to people something intelligentantly designed the earth. God is much bigger and much greater than just creating the earth. If someone believes that there is a God because they beleive someone created the earth, then they miss out on a personal, loving God.

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  6. WRITTEN BY: Matthew Seymour
    I agree with Natalie Hammer that it is impossible to prove the existence of God. The evidence suggest that it is statistically favorable to say that there was intelligent design instead of chaos that resulted in the world that exists today. I do not believe we as humanity was a cosmological accident. If the big bang theory was true, how did matter come to be? What caused the big bang? Who made scientific laws such as gravity? The complexity of each living organism and the diversity of life on the planet suggests that macro-evolution could not take place. I find it hard to believe that even over the course of millions of years tiny mutations could completely change one species to another. If evolution did in fact occur, I find that these mutations happened without the guiding hand of God. And a side note, it is unsettling how strongly evangelicals cling to creationism and reject those who believe in a sort of evolution.

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  7. WRITTEN BY MATTHEW SEYMOUR
    Regarding Post by Lindsey C.
    I completely agree that humans attempt to understand God 2-dimensionally (or even 3D) when He exists in a much higher dimension. 3-D is what we exist in (length, width, and height). The 4th dimension is theorized to encompass all of time. So it is the length, width, and height that encompasses all of eternity. If God exists even in this dimension, he would be just beyond our comprehension. The 5th dimension is theorized by some to include all time in all possible universes. Religious Scientists theorize that God exists in a higher dimension still.

    The Bible says that God always was, is, and is to come. He exists throughout history as the same God. He sees the past, the present, and the future at the same time. This does NOT mean that we do not have free choice. We exist in the 3rd dimension, God in a much higher dimension. He knows what we will do. Does that mean we didn't have a choice? I do not believe that we are predestined by God. God simply already knows what choice you will make because he exists in the realm of eternity.

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  8. First off, I find it unfathomable that we are surrounded by intricately designed molecular biology. To me this gives astounding evident there is a Creator of unmeasurable talent.

    I also believe everyone has a innate need for a spiritual relationship, and there are countless ways of expressing it. Many people have a different understanding or view of a spiritual relationships. Aristotle deems there are three cornerstones of rhetoric, they are the available means of persuasion. I believe each person has their own way of thinking that supports how they view the spiritual. Logos, appeals is a logical prospective, using reason and perhaps scientific fact. This article would probably appeal to the person who deem truth by reasoning. Pathos, appeals to emotions and Ethos appeals to credibility. Many people only think one way, but God is not categorized, He is not confined to one area of thinking.

    Does God exist? It's an age old question that sparks even more, rippling questions that remain ceaseless. There are countless places to find evident, but I doubt there will ever be a true consensus.

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  9. I agree with Natalie that it is impossible to 'prove' that there is a God. An important point we need to understand is that the existence of God cannot be proved in the same way one proves the existence of a physical object, because God is not a physical object. The Bible states that there are people who have seen enough evidence to the possibility of God’s existence, yet have ignored the truth about God.
    One of the reasons I believe that God exists is because of morals. Evolution can explain a lot, but how can it explain why people have morals? Humans are unique in that we perform acts of compassion that do not benefit our genes from an evolutionary view.
    I think there is overwhelming evidence that God exists, including great points from the above article. Although there is a lot of evidence that God exists, it's almost impossible to prove that He truly does exist when there is no physical evidence. But just because we cannot see him, does not mean he does not exist. I think we can see God's works and his presence in every day life.

    - Julie

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  10. I agree with Natalie, it is completely impossible to physically prove to somebody that there is in fact a God. God is so much bigger than any of us can imagine and we would be fighting a losing battle if we tried to dumb it down to the point of having literal proof that he does exist. God told us to have faith and that is what we base our beleif on. We have faith that he is the creator and that all things are him, came from him and will return to him, nothing belongs to us.

    The Big Bang theory is a joke in my opinion, where did the little ball of energy come from that exploded into the world and universe and existance? Its interesting that scientists now are even beleiving that there is a universal power that must have been around to create the universe. As christains all we can do is beleive and have faith and try to share our understanding of who and what God is to us, and hopefully we can break down same walls and get through to some people. So to answer the Question "Does God Exist?" Yes, he has different names given by different beleif systems, but they all point to him. He is omnipotent, he is everything, he is our universe, it just depends on how you choose to define him.

    -Zach Heim

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  11. SU

    I agree with the entire idea of it being impossible to prove or explain God. I think that I would be a little scared if I could grasp the entirety of the God who I serve and put all of my trust and hope into. If I were to be able to fully comprehend everything about my God, what makes Him God? What makes him any greater than me, or the guy living next door? This is where the aspect of faith comes into play. If we are able to understand EVERYTHING, what would anyone need faith for? Faith is believing in something when you can't see it, when you don't necessarily understand it. It's giving God the benefit of the doubt that He knows what he is doing and has the best possible plan for us.

    As far as the whole evolution theory, if we supposedly morphed from little specimens, that turned into some other creature, that turned into some monkey of some sort, that turned into us, what has made monkeys today stop turning into humans? I never really understood this concept.

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  12. Rachelle VanderMeulenMarch 24, 2009 at 10:24 PM

    So I know that this is going to be a long response, but I feel that this will go perfect to what is being asked here. This is a forward I received from my mom a while back. It has always stuck in my mind when I think of the topic of “Is God Real?” I am sure some of you have already heard it, but for those of you that haven’t…please read it…
    A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, 'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. 'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?' 'Yes sir,' the student says. 'So you believe in God?' 'Absolutely.' 'Is God good?' 'Sure! God's good.' 'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?' 'Yes.' 'Are you good or evil?' 'The Bible says I'm evil.' The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible!' He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?' 'Yes sir, I would.' 'So you're good...!' 'I wouldn't say that.' 'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.' The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?' The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?' 'Er...yes,' the student says. 'Is Satan good?' The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.' 'Then where does Satan come from?' The student falters. 'From God' 'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?' 'Yes, sir.' 'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?' 'Yes.' 'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.' Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?' The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.' 'So who created them?' The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?' The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.' The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?' 'No sir. I've never seen Him.' 'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?' 'No, sir, I have not.' 'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?' 'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.' 'Yet you still believe in him?' 'Yes.' 'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?' 'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.' 'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.' At the back of the room another student stands quietly for a moment before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?’ 'Yes,' the professor replies. 'There's heat.' 'And is there such a thing as cold?' 'Yes, son, there's cold too.' 'No sir, there isn't.' The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.' 'Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.' Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer. 'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?' 'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?' 'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it is called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word.' 'In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?' The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?' 'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.' The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?' 'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?' 'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.' 'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?' The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed. 'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?' The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?' Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.' 'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.' To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.' The professor sat down.
    …in our society today, I feel that there are many people that question the existence of God. In my opinion, as time goes on there are less and less Christians around. As the generations get younger, the focus is more on the new technology that comes out instead of on God. Our lives are all pretty busy, and I am just as guilty as you in putting God on hold, and sometimes I forget how lucky we are that He gives us second chances; he forgives us and takes us back. If only people in our world today understood that…if only they were able to see the benefits of having a relationship with Him. It is our job to show them; it is our job to make sure they know just what they are missing. God does exist, so let us make sure they know that!

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  13. Jonathan SosnbowskiMarch 25, 2009 at 10:42 PM

    We as humans love the idea of understanding, knowledge, classification and form. We like things to be within our jurisdiction, and applicable to a specific modern way of thinking. Hence, science; the tool of humans to answer every question they may pose. Where the problem lies is in particular areas of life cannot be explained. Something deeper is needed, which has been labeled the supernatural and faith. With more and more people 'needing' science as an explanation to everything, these words have now become taboo. People see those ananswereable questions as only temporary sources of bafflement, soon there will be answers to those as well. Can we not accept that there are some signs in this world that a greater being is at work? That we as humans do not own the world nor created it to begin with?

    There are too many people from the dawn of time to the present, from the civilised to the most primitive tribe in isloation, that have acknowledged the existence of some type of god. I believe in today's age, we should be debating the good old struggle between which god to follow than try and prove that a greater being does in fact exist. Too many common experiences have been felt by every race on earth to discredit God's existence. Religious people are no longer the minority of this age, but combined form billions of people. Yet the writers of textbooks hold the pen and the power in our world to say something different. That either through random chance, or some accident life began. Energy was created and has constantly evoloved to arrive at the point we now live in. Science should be ever confirming the existence of God, but rather a distant mathmatical figure is chosen to be believed instead. People would rather believe that by a chance so small it would make a fist in proportion to the entire universe, life began. Through the studies of microbiology, it should be seen that a definite creater and designer was at work in formation of life from the smallest part of a cell(which is continually getting smaller) to the entire universe.

    Why are people so scared to admit something greater than the god they have made science into? If both arguments where to be presented equally to an unbiased judge never hearing of either one, that person would laugh off science as a reasonable option for the beginning of the world and I believe choose an intelligent designer. This decision means giving up power, authority and belief in one self, and handing it over to the greater being who is Gof. I believe this is the main reason for the continual disproving of God as an existing being.

    - Jono Sos.

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  14. It is nearly impossible to prove that God exists. God is something bigger and greater than anything else. It's hard for some people to believe in something that isn't concrete or tangible. Faith is a heavy influence. As I've gone through school I've realized more and more how much science and religion can coincide with one another. I read a book called Creator and the Cosmos and it had some very interesting things in it. Like the post topic said, astronomy has had evidence that the the universe had a beginning. In Genesis it simply states "In the beginning". This is common ground for believers and it isn't as far fetched as some may think. The creation of our world just seems too perfect to not have a higher power involved. Take into consideration our planet, it's location, it's axis, what it's made of. If any of these were off slightly, life would cease to exist on this planet. We are located conveniently in the "life zone" of our solar system. If our axis was slightly off from what it is, our planet would suffer greatly from the sun and it's radiation and life could not exist. Same goes for if we were closer or further away from the sun. The position of the rest of our planets is perfect as well. If any were changed the rest would change canceling out the permit for life. That's way too many coincidences for me. Science in a way has just answered and reaffirmed some things that I questioned as a believer.

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  15. One question related to this deep theological inquiry that keeps coming back to me is, if the supernatural God created our universe from nothing, what existed before the universe and for how long? The reason this is troublesome is that as a human race we have become so familiar with the concept of time, but most of us would agree that God is not limited by time. So how long did God exist before he created the universe?

    Returning to the question of God’s existence, and having looked through the responses, I have noticed that several of us have suggested it is impossible to prove the existence of God, nor can we explain him. Elements of this I accept—others I do not. I would have to agree with the fact that we cannot explain God. Lets face reality – we have been trying to put God into a box (as many of you have said) for thousands of years only to find there isn’t a box big enough to fit God into. We will always seek to figure out the Creator and Creation. It will never fully happen – but I would suggest that it is an entirely good thing that we seek answers to our questions. If we accept that there is a God—He gave us a brain and the ability to think intelligently and rationally, meaning he fully expects us to ask these questions. Some answers will come, others will not. At least we have an answer to the question of, “Will we ever stop asking questions?” The answer is no – these questions always lead to another and so on.

    Now, to the suggestion that it is impossible to prove the existence of God; I understand why some Christians suggest this but the flaw is that the suggestion comes from the argument of incomprehension of God. Of course we cannot fully comprehend God, but we do comprehend many aspects of who God is, do we not? How many times in the history of the world has God tried to prove his existence only to find that humankind rejects Him? The Israelites did it time and time again, and they continually turned from Him. So how did God reverse the fall of man? He appeared to us as a MAN, a finite, REAL human being who lived in THIS world. Of course we are to have faith, but I would assert that it is fully acceptable to prove the existence of God through Jesus Christ. He was a REAL, historical human who lived in real time and space. Moreover, He proved while on earth his existence as God! Most of us know the miracles and wonders Jesus did on earth because most of us are believers, but there is simply no logical reason when fully looking at all of the evidence to believe that God does not exist. He DOES, He is Jesus, and he proved that to us 2000 years ago. We don’t have to throw our brains into the trashcan to believe that Jesus really existed, that he really performed miracles, and that he was resurrected from the grave.

    Our ability to prove God’s existence rests not simply with Creation—it rests with Jesus. Don’t take the easy way out of the question and say God is too incomprehensible and it is therefore impossible to prove his existence. Tackle the question head on. If you are a believer, you know this to be true – we can prove God’s existence through Jesus! He physically existed on this earth as a man and our basis for showing others that God exists is through Christ, not just the act of Creation. I could talk forever about the reasons we can believe that Jesus is God and that he truly resurrected from the grave, but that’s why authors like Lee Strobel wrote books like The Case for Christ. Read it again – and read The Case for Creation too. Have faith – we should always have faith, but have faith seeking understanding. From this perspective, we can prove God’s existence.

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  16. We can’t prove there is a God, but we can’t prove there isn’t a God. However, my theology professor from last year posed an interesting question to me about trying to prove God through logic and science. He argued that maybe God did not intend to be proved through science, but rather it is through faith that one understands and believes in God.
    I have struggled with the statement for a year now and have decided that while I do think believing in God requires a large amount of faith; I think that science does help justify the belief in a God. I still believe that science cannot prove in the creation of the world and humanity without a God. Humans are such complex creatures, and I refuse to think that we are made of a bunch of chemicals, and our design just occurred by chance. The pastor of my parent’s church gave a sermon on genetics and showed a video on the formation of a person, and the transferring of genes, and mitosis and meiosis, and the miracle of life. He then went on to say that if there was one gene less, or one atom less, then our world would not be as we know it. How, would these phenomena make sense to anyone? How could you say that there isn’t a God who strategically planned the world?
    I know Lindsey found an article in Health and Science that says that to the brain, God is just another guy. I don’t necessarily know if this is true.
    The cover of Time Magazines February 2009 issue was titled “ How faith can heal” and the article inside gave statistics on how people who do believe in God tend to be happier and healthier people. That belief in God, and His ability to do miracles has helped people over come horrific situations like surviving cancer, grieving over the death of a loved one, loss of job, etc. I have always thought that believing in a higher power makes life on earth more meaningful and having faith in something outside of this world gives me peace.

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  17. I don’t think that science can either prove or disprove the existence of God. But I think that science can, to a point, reinforce our beliefs in God’s existence. For a Christian, our beliefs shouldn’t rely completely on reason, but they also shouldn’t rely completely on feelings. I think that we have our faith, and then reason comes up underneath it and just makes it stronger. For instance, we can delve into molecular science and see just how complex the world is. The more we see in science, the more complex we see things, and this can continue in possibly solidifying the faith that Christians have in God. Also, if we came from nothing, and everything happened by random chance, I don’t think that we would have an inner conscience or morals. We can look at us as humans and see that we were made in the image of something better (God), which in the end makes us strive to be better. In conclusion, I definitely believe that God exists. We can see Him in so many things around us, including molecular nature and the moral conscience that humans have.

    -Jolene Kline

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  18. I have to admit, that I have asked the same question as Michael many times before, "What existed before the universe and for how long?" I understand that it may not be one of the most important things to consider on this topic, but why was the earth created when it was? I believe that God created us, and totally discount the Big Bang Theory, I am just curious as to why.

    As one of your "things to consider" you talk about natural laws and their purpose. In my philosophy class, we talked about natural law and eternal law. Eternal law is the law by which God rules all of creation; and Natural law is the human creature's participation in the Eternal law. So this Natural law, then, comes from the Lord. It is almost a guideline in ethics; our nature determines what we consider to be "good" and influences the choices we make each day.

    Do scientists really believe this ethical way of thinking, this knowing what is "good" and "bad" came from a natural unintelligent process? While physcically things can adapt to thier surroundings, creating kind of evolution; I think it just goes to show how dense many scientists can be to think that we just "are."
    Thomas Aquinas speaks about Efficient Causality saying, "No being is the cause of itself, otherwise it would pre-exist itself." Like you said, a design needs a designer; and we were made by God in His image.

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  19. I have often thought about the existence of God, but then I simply look around and realize how complex and detailed the world we live in is and that and it could only be created by such a power God. This is the idea of intuitive design. For example how can you watch the birth of a child, and not be impressed with the complexities of the human body. All around us we see evidence of the incredible intelligence of God.

    “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Roman 1:20 In looking at this see can see that the nature around us shows us a God of might, intelligence, and intricate detail. He also tells us that in looking at His creation we should have no excuses to question his existence.

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  20. I believe that people who don't believe that God exists have at least considered the possibility, but are afraid to admit that there is something powerful that created and molded us into what we are today. There is no possible way that everything came into existence out of nothing. The complexity of microscopic being are not only amazing, but make you wonder about what kind of force could've created it.The answer is God.God can be seen al throught nature and science.No one but God could've created something so complex as a chain reaction, or as majestic as Niagra Falls.

    People might argue that we are biased by the fact that we are Christians and that we cannot prove that God is real or that he really exists.The answers are all around them, in nature and in science.They cannot disprove the fact that God exists as much as they think we can prove that he does.God is real,and nature proves it.

    -Edith De La Cruz

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  21. Although I believe scientific observation has provided us with evidence that lends itself toward a belief in an intelligent designer, scienctific knowledge alone cannot lead us to know the God of the Bible.
    We might observe the intricate complexity of the universe as a whole, of our planet in particular, or of the tiny mitochondria in our cells and see the work of someone with radical intelligence. We might study the brain as it considers religious matters and use social sciences to observe the widespread belief in the supernatural and thus believe that something numinous does indeed exist. Such observations alone, however, can lead us to believe in an abundance of local deities, a single God, a Jungian collective unconscious, a purposeful Hegelian Geist, a universal spirit or mind, or a henotheistic council of the gods. Empirical observations alone can never lead us to an all good and all powerful God. The existence of evil and suffering in a world created and maintained by such a good and powerful God can be answered to an extent with theological tools, but never with scientific inquiry.
    The scientific method cannot deduce that there exists one God in three Persons who loves His creatures. Nor can it tell us that the Second Person of that Trinity became a man in order to die and return to life in order to redeem humanity.
    Science cannot, of course, disprove such things either, but the point is that science does not have the proper tools to discern such things about God. Only God's self-revelation can inform us of such things, and those statements may only be accepted in faith.
    We are right to glorify God for the works of His hands and to take comfort in the empirical evidence that hints at His existence, but we should not be surprised to find that our unbelieving friends remain unconvinced concerning Jesus when shown the same scientific observations. If we ask science to convict people of sin and point them toward a savior, we ask too much.

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  22. Science is meant to deal with empirical data, that which can be experienced with the senses. Following the organization of the Royal Society, scientists in the modern Western world began to value objectivity over emotion, factual over subjective analysis. These scientists sought to systematically evaluate life.

    As a result, education (soon to become public education) reflected these values. Through the sciences, we are taught in school to value logic and reason. We begin to equate these virtues with truth and fact.

    Last year, one of my professors pointed out that, "truth isn't always fact." I immediately rejected this: if something is true, it must be fact and vice versa. However, as we discussed it, it became clearer because of the nuances of the words. Fact tends to mean provable logic. Truth is reality whether you believe me or not. If I stand up and walk out of the classroom, it is a fact that I walked out. It was witnessed and experienced. If I tell you I left the classroom because my heart was burdened and I needed time to think, that is true; albeit, there's no way for me to prove that to you.

    What is true is not always fact. Truth is not only that which can be empirically, systematically, and logically proven. This is why science cannot prove God. It may see God, but it cannot prove God. God exists within and far beyond fact, in the realm of truth.

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  23. I like what Lindsay said about that health article.


    "According to a team at the Nation Institutes of Health, "A study of 40 people — some religious, some nonreligious — found that phrases such as "I believe God is with me throughout the day and watches over me" lit up the same areas of the brain we use to decipher the emotions and intentions of other people.""

    I think this is a very good sign. God isn't just a genie in a bottle or a judge waiting to smite us. He is a loving, caring, relational person.

    We were made to be in relationship with God. So that fact that the parts of our brain we use to communicate with people are being used when we talk about God...

    It doesn't really come as a surprise to me;)

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  24. I have taken lots of time to ponder the question of God's existence in reality. Through reading the various responses made by many students and my own opinions I have come up with the following few sentences.
    The existence of God has almost become a philosophical question. No matter where you stand on the issue there is always someone that has a strong argument for the opposite view. Many people feel like analogies are strong enough proof, others need strong scientific evidence. I believe that God's existence will never be proven unless He comes down to earth in all His glory. I choose to believe based upon the evidence surrounding me even though the next man might not see it as evidence of God's existence.
    When you think about nature and how complex creation and life is it makes you wonder where it all came from. The times that I have felt God's presence the most in my life are when I take the time to appreciate the earth and what surrounds me.

    BC

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  25. By James Staniland,
    Yes i beleive God exsist. Yes there are the philosophers and so called smart people that have their own opinion and beleif about our God. In science it is hard to find scientist that beleive the world was created by God. Its a tough subject but you either beleive or dont.

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    Replies
    1. In reply to James Staniland,

      I definitely agree with what you are saying here. Scientists are all about finding a definite answer for something and many of them lack faith. How could something just appear out of nowhere? Where is the science out of that. I can understand where scientists are coming from, but our universe is so much bigger and greater than science. Faith has to step in somewhere, to make room for God. I do believe though that there is a science to how our earth lives and survives.

      Delete
    2. In reply to James Staniland,

      I definitely agree with what you are saying here. Scientists are all about finding a definite answer for something and many of them lack faith. How could something just appear out of nowhere? Where is the science out of that. I can understand where scientists are coming from, but our universe is so much bigger and greater than science. Faith has to step in somewhere, to make room for God. I do believe though that there is a science to how our earth lives and survives.

      Delete
  26. "You must limit knowledge in order to make room for faith" Immanuel Kant.

    Yet, Socrates, who was pronounced the wisest man in Athens, had a different view of knowledge. He believed that the only reason he was wise was because he was aware of his inadequacies.
    So here is my theory:

    Human beings are not able to "know" everything. Our pursuit of knowledge will always have a limit or ceiling which cannot be overcome. However, above the wall there is the notion of God. We have an idea of his existence and so faith does not limit knowledge, but rather it is the addition of faith to knowledge that complete the reasoning of human knowledge itself.

    one last idea stems from a verse in Romans. The idea that all of creation is a testament to the divine power and nature of God. In the same way, God seems to be a popular thought and idea in almost every culture of the world since the dawn of time. Perhaps it is more than coincidence..

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  27. Helen SchoenenbergerMay 7, 2010 at 10:33 AM

    I wrote a research paper about how God’s existence can be proven through logic and reason which was inspired by the great Thomas Aquinas himself. I do believe that everything must stem from something. The universe is indeed ordered by natural laws. These laws came from the creator or intelligent designer. Thomas Aquinas used the analogy of the first mover. This analogy showed that everything is in motion or existence from something above that object or creation. Once you stem all creation to it’s original designer it points to one intelligent creator. I do agree with philosophers when they say that transcend Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for objective moral standard. There are certain laws in which all humans abide. Does everyone follow the laws daily? No, but everyone has a understanding of right and wrong. This must mean we somehow have a law giver. Everyone has a conscience to some certain degree. Sure as we fall harder into sin our conscience slowly weakens to justify our sinful actions but none the less we all have a conscience. Is this just by chance? No! All humans were born with a conscience therefore we must have been rooted from someone who had created such thing inside us.

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  28. Jeremiah Masopust
    I find it to be quite interesting in thinking over how things could have come to be. Thinking from the perspective of one believing in the big-bang: there must have been something to be the catalyst into happening. Maybe it is beyond my capability to conceptualize the process of one matter, separate from another entity, acting upon each other to create something so specific as human existence. I can see how there are things that are physically beyond my understanding that my brain cannot process through due to my limitations that God has already limited. Growing up, it was very clear to me how God has always existed, because I understood and accepted that there are things I cannot explain in this world. Ignorance? Yes. But I am alright with not knowing for certainty where things came from. That is the point of faith. The danger with knowing ALL things about all circumstances surrounding oneself, the individual would naturally tend to rely on themselves for answer and rationality to solve the problem rather than accept a higher power or deity above them who gives power and wisdom to those who seek Him. Like I said, maybe I am being callous and ignorant and have not clearly thought out things yet, but they way I see it, God has created me and for a purpose. Those who believe in the absence of of deity will have to accept whatever consequences (or lack thereof) when they die. As harsh as it may sound, it is what I see the Bible to teach, and I take the validity of the Bible on faith. Yes, science has backed up claims the Bible has made. But because it is an account of the miraculous, the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, its very nature in itself has to be taken on faith. Those who do not believe in God claim there is nothing after life; that means the best life they have is now. I believe that God does exist and the path to salvation is through Jesus Christ, God's son. My best life will be once I am united with Him after I die, whereas those who don't believe this will have to answer to God when they die as well. I hope for their sake that I am wrong. However, I believe I am not mistaken.

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  29. BC said,

    I have taken lots of time to ponder the question of God's existence in reality. Through reading the various responses made by many students and my own opinions I have come up with the following few sentences. 
The existence of God has almost become a philosophical question. No matter where you stand on the issue there is always someone that has a strong argument for the opposite view. Many people feel like analogies are strong enough proof, others need strong scientific evidence. I believe that God's existence will never be proven unless He comes down to earth in all His glory. I choose to believe based upon the evidence surrounding me even though the next man might not see it as evidence of God's existence. 
When you think about nature and how complex creation and life is it makes you wonder where it all came from. The times that I have felt God's presence the most in my life are when I take the time to appreciate the earth and what surrounds me.

BC


    To respond, I believe BC made a great point and I definitely agree with the student about God’s existence! I am currently taking Philosophy and it is mind bobbling. I find it so hard to understand and it is true about the question of God’s existence becoming a philosophical question of many philosophers. I believe the Bible says it all and that what other evidence do we need? God works in us all the time, without Him..would we even be here? Think about tragedies in your life.. I believe when we pray as a community, family, or self.. God works in them almost every time. I believe it and I agree because God has worked in me with overcoming my mother’s death back in 2000. I lost my mother in a very tragic way and I was very young to understand and over come it all. I held everything in and never thought of letting Christ help me. It was only two years ago when I attended a church and felt like God is trying to reach for me and now I am a full believer in Him! I love this verse, Bless it to those whom mourn, for they will be comforted.” The Lord has stirred my heart before I became a Christ follower. I believe that God is here with me at all times. I do not need to see Him physically to believe that He is real!

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  30. In response to Jolene:

    I definitely agree with you about the complexity of things solidifying our faith. With the advances in science, are able to find more and more incredible things that we didn't know were there. For me, this is a sign that we have an amazing Creator who made everything so intricate and that our God is an awesome God. I often find myself admiring God's complex creations. One of my favorite things to do is think about how mighty our God must be to have created such detail in everything. For example, the human body has an odd shape. You would think that the shape it has wouldn't be able to stand alone, with a mass of tissue in the middle with four limbs and a head on top, yet God made it so liquid in our ears allow us to have a sense of balance. We can run and jump and still land on our feet. It blows my mind at how incredible God's creation is. I also love admiring nature. From noticing the rough surface of the bark on a pine tree to seeing a white quartz rock dazzle in the sun, I always give the glory to God. I see God in all of His creation and the evidence is all around.

    -Chris Kline

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  31. Being a Christian my answer to “where do these natural laws come from” is an easy answer. Yes, science states that there was a beginning to the earth. Now people must decide whether it started by a higher power or by chance. All the laws of the universe have a special purpose, some that are obvious and some we may never know the true purpose of. God believes in your right to free will. I believe that there is right and wrong and that God did give me my conscience, but also gave me the ability to use it how I will. It exists to test you in a way, I believe. Our ability to think for ourselves is a way to test our knowledge and the things we find true or untrue.

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  32. We are all ordinary people. We can consider ourselves lucky if we have ever witnessed a miracle or had a prayer answered. But all these miraculous things that have happened in the Bible seem so far fetched and sometimes like just a fairytale. What are we, as ordinary people and followers of Christ, supposed to do with all of that? I think that is why faith is such a powerful thing. I think the stories in the Bible are meant to be guides to us. They are supposed to show us how powerful in fact our Lord can be. God exists. By looking outside and feeling the wind, there is God. that is where the true obstacle stands. People of faith know God exists, people with no faith do not believe so.

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  33. "Does God exist" is such bold question to ask in my opinion. I have experienced God's presence, miracles, his creation, and have seen his beauty. Not to mention that I am part of his creation. As a Christian, it is not hard to believe that God created everything we see and something don't see. To see this from a different view point, we must be able to see this as a non-Christian would.
    From molecules, space, nature, humans, our bodily functions, to the real world and emotions, if one does not believe in God, it is difficult to comprehend where all of this came from and how we make sense of it. There are some minor possibilities that could be true, however all of this is not being accounted for. God is that missing puzzle piece. He can be blamed for it all. For God created it all.

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  34. The topic of God existing is one that is hard for our minds to grasp. It is amazing how science and the Bible really do work together and match up when it comes to the beginning of our world. Miracles happen daily and they just not be ignored. I like the last question in this blog about God’s existence through him revealing himself. I believe that he absolutely reveals himself in the Bible and by interacting through the Spirit with us. I like in the second comment how Bethany Gibson notes that if we have an idea of a being who is infinite, such thing must exist. We can not think infinite without something causing this to put the idea in our mind. This is so true! There must be an infinite being who moves through us and performs miracles through his Spirit and he cannot be ignored. We as humans are not going to be able to fully comprehend God, because He is so much greater and is nothing like us. He is infinite and regardless of wether I understand him completely or not, I will spend my life following Him.

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